Tactics Trainer

Submitted by BorgQueen on Wed, 10/07/2009 at 8:15pm.

Lately, I have been reminded about the shortcomings of the tactics trainer.

The two basic problems are:

1.  Alternative correct moves are treated the same as hopeless blunders.

EG, you play a move that wins (like a mate in 10).  But there is a mate in 5 there.  TT screams WRONG!!! and strips you of your rating points.  The same thing will happen if you play a move that loses the game (say, gives your opponent a mate in 1).  This is hugely unfair. 

Currently, you can report such problems and the mods then hack the problem and strip away all the moves from the point of where the conflict occurs.. IE if the mate in 10 vs mate in 5 is at move 3, the problem is reduced to 2 moves.  That's nice, but the end result is that the puzzle is basically destroyed.

 

2.  The points penalty is too severe if you take too long.

Examples:

Oct 8 12:55pm 0046480 2353 2401 4/4 1:37 2:56 Passed (53% | +1)

4 moves right.  Yes, I took nearly 3 mins to do this one.  But that is four moves in 3 minutes.  Perfectly acceptable isn't it?  Four moves right.  One single point awarded.

Oct 8 12:46pm 0029895 2473 2396 0/2 0:50 0:56 Failed (0% | -44)

1 move wrong.  Bye bye 44 points.  It could have been a good move I played it might not.  TT doesn't care, it simply wasn't the move that it wanted.

Oct 7 4:26pm 0025715 2381 2327 4/4 1:20 12:17 Passed (20% | -25)

Passed.  Four out of four moves correct.  Bye bye 25 points?!  Yes, because I took too long.  I agree that 12 minutes is too long.  I actually got a phone call.  Heaven forbid!  But this means I LOSE points??  That's retarded.  The MINIMUM points award for getting a puzzle RIGHT should be zero... surely!?


Now, personally, I don't really care about the first one... I think it's part of the system and you either take it or leave it.  I believe the whole tactics trainer system would have be be re-written to get it to do alternative moves and weigh each move and award ratings accordingly.

But the second one is a constant annoyance and I would think that it wouldn't take much to change it so that the points awarded is a little fairer.

What do you think?  Can you think of any good ways to fix it that could be suggested to chess.com staff??

» posted in BorgBlog
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Comments:

by BorgQueen - 35 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

Yeah, but it's so hard to tell with just text!  Well I find it hard anyway Tongue out

by Kacparov - 35 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

Of course that was joking, what else could it be? :)

by BorgQueen - 35 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

I sincerely hope you're joking Kacper... otherwise that would have to be the biggest "cry-baby" comment laced with mega-arrogance that I have seen in a VERY long time.

by Kacparov - 35 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

And today I solved a problem with only 95% :(

by Kacparov - 35 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

I don't seem to have that change. Or it's smaller.

Oct 20 12:15pm 0030416 2614 2569 0/4 3:18 0:09 Failed (0% | -36)
Oct 20 12:15pm 0063491 2554 2605 2/2 1:13 0:26 Passed (95% | +34)
Oct 20 12:14pm 0033015 2622 2571 0/3 1:43 0:22 Failed (0% | -42)

by Kacparov - 35 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823
by BorgQueen - 35 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

Cool!  I like this idea tbh.  Makes less of an impact over a drunken mistake...  such as finding that awesome tactic that would have worked if it weren't for the mate lined up against you... oops. 

by val08 - 35 days ago
United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2581

Yeah, it was just the past few days that I noticed this. Look how small these changes are for pass and fails. I feel like we're going to have a net increase of ratings. Frown

Oct 20 1:59am 0109011 2031 2020 1/2 0:55 0:31 Failed (44% | -1)
Oct 20 1:58am 0041187 2011 2021 3/3 0:58 0:23 Passed (93% | +16)
Oct 20 1:57am 0114730 2069 2005 0/6 1:09 0:10 Failed (0% | -15)
Oct 20 1:56am 0022787 1981 2020 2/2 0:30 0:08 Passed (98% | +16)
Oct 20 1:56am 0025748 2100 2004 0/1 0:36 0:16 Failed (0% | -14)
Oct 20 1:55am 0190612 2084 2018 1/6 1:40 0:19 Failed (17% | -9)
Oct 20 1:55am 0023765 1987 2027 4/4 1:08 0:43 Passed (88% | +12)
Oct 20 1:53am 0029996 2037 2015 1/2 0:58 0:11 Failed (50% | +1)
Oct 20 1:53am 0029526 2026 2014 1/2 1:05 0:15 Failed (49% | -1)
Oct 20 1:30am 0022895 1988 2015 2/2 1:09 0:17 Passed (98% | +18)
Oct 20 1:29am 0177526 2013 1997 0/2 0:49 0:16 Failed (0% | -19)
Oct 20 1:28am 0022401 2002 2016 3/3 0:42 0:19 Passed (92% | +16)
Oct 20 1:28am 0034256 1939 2000 3/3 0:40 0:29 Passed (86% | +11)
Oct 19 1:40pm 0145002 2038 1989 2/5 2:35 0:19 Failed (40% | -1)
Oct 19 1:39pm 0032053 1980 1990 3/3 1:38 0:35 Passed (95% | +18)
Oct 19 1:37pm 0186537 1892 1972 2/2 0:37 0:07 Passed (100% | +21)
Oct 19 1:37pm 0072788 1899 1951 1/1 0:15 0:20 Passed (67% | +4)
Oct 19 1:36pm 0124368 2061 1947 0/4 1:09 0:04 Failed (0% | -20)
Oct 19 1:36pm 0101590 2045 1967 0/3 0:51 0:03 Failed (0% | -18)
Oct 19 1:35pm 0133398 1931 1985 3/3 0:40 0:07 Passed (100% | +20)
Oct 19 1:35pm 0101381 2052 1965 0/3 1:13 0:18 Failed (0% | -20)
Oct 19 1:34pm 0164502 1995 1985 0/3 1:55 0:18 Failed (0% | -24)
Oct 19 1:33pm 0099998 2127 2009 0/2 0:49 0:17 Failed (0% | -22)
Oct 19 1:33pm 0104344 1981 2031 3/3 0:49 0:22 Passed (92% | +20)
Oct 19 1:31pm 0033999 1912 2011 2/2 0:44 0:14 Passed (96% | +20)

by BorgQueen - 35 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

dbforums.com?  Huh? 

I'm StarTrekker there :)

When did this change take place Val?  

After October 16?

Oct 16 6:59pm 0036114 2396 2295 0/2 1:25 2:10 Failed (0% | -47)
by val08 - 35 days ago
United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2581

Oh and funny thing, if you click on dbforums.com on the right column, it leads you to wholesalechess.com Surprised

by val08 - 35 days ago
United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2581

Has anyone noticed how the point change is now only ~25 for 100%? It used to be 44 point change when you got 100%. Well, at least now my rating won't plummet after several tactics. But it takes forever to go up.

by Kacparov - 38 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

let me know how you get on :)

by BorgQueen - 38 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

And then I encountered 4 "auto-approved" tactics that were just absurd, like mates everywhere and I took the wrong one every time!  My rating crashed to 2100 before I could get it back to "normal" with some blitz type attempts.  Took me quite a few to adjust to the chess.com style again after taking my time with CT ^^

And OTB tonight, I got into time trouble.  Think I'll try the blitz on CT from now on lol

by Kacparov - 39 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

:(

by BorgQueen - 39 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

I'm on a roll!!!

Oct 16 1:50pm 0027027 2368 2313 1/1 0:26 4:19 Passed (20% | -25)
Oct 16 1:42pm 0030265 2374 2338 7/7 2:34 8:59 Passed (20% | -27)
Oct 16 1:31pm 0036763 2377 2365 5/5 1:58 9:37 Passed (20% | -31)
Oct 16 1:09pm 0021067 2468 2396 2/2 0:47 2:04 Passed (20% | -23)
Oct 16 12:42pm 0030581 2430 2419 5/5 1:48 3:35 Passed (22% | -23)
Oct 16 12:31pm 0027885 2382 2442 3/3 1:24 1:27 Passed (79% | +23)
Oct 15 4:37pm 0035504 2462 2419 3/3 1:39 3:33 Passed (20% | -27)
Oct 15 4:25pm 0029857 2444 2446 1/1 0:26 0:46 Passed (42% | -9)

by Kacparov - 41 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

I've learned it from CT blitz.

by BorgQueen - 41 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

That's just amazing... I wish I could do that.  Takes me at least 30 seconds to check out what's happening ^^

by Kacparov - 41 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

I've just noticed that I have a pass with 0 seconds!

Sep 29 7:00pm 0022713 2493 2599 4/4 1:11 0:00 Passed (100% | +45)
by Kacparov - 41 days ago
Torun Poland
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 5823

:)

by BorgQueen - 41 days ago
Adelaide Australia
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 4526

Impressive!

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