Agreed :-)

We have to take care of each other and our only home, the Earth. The individual has a place, and so do groups/collectives/nations. Markets have a place. Governments have a place. But one way or another, we have to stop trashing the environment, waging war, tolerating poverty in the midst of plenty, and minimizing people's contributions to the public arena. If we don't, we will find that we aren't so special as to be immune from extinction.

I am not sure where I read this but think perhaps it was Voltaires Bastards by John Ralston Saul. He likened the first world war to a thunder storm, where you have two colliding weather zones. Imagine the death throws of the old imperial powers being swept aside to allow the business interests of the 'new' capitalisim to re-shape europe. Hmmm.... bit vague. please fill in gaps people!

Humble - when I say left wing, I loosely refer to socialism, and when I say right wing and refer to capitalism :-)

Absolom, that was beautifully written, what a lovely statement to wake up to, thank you, and of course it makes sense. You have given a very gracious and honest view of what defines you and Amnesiac, two perfect opposites on the scale. (Although you both appear to seek an argument to maybe challenge your beliefs and help you cement them? You are perhaps more alike than you would think :-))

I feel as though I'm floating above the scale right now - or sitting on a proverbial fence between you both. Just waiting for something I read, or hear, or see, to knock me off.

Nic-

Very admirable....to say that you may not have been correct in your beliefs...however, you may not have been incorrect either.

An observation:  you and I have a mutual friend.  He and I like to argue.  We are very different in our views on some things.  He is an idealist...sincere in his beliefs.  He likes to think things all the way through...wants to understand.  He is a philosopher...an artist of sorts...clever and peaceful...prefering wit to war. 

I am different....uncompromising and deliberate...prefering action to contemplation...given to the completion of a task rather than the creation there of.  I believe in absolutes because thinking about things this way is what allows me to think at all.  I have chosen this path.

I think that we need each other (as groups).  He finds me "saveable" in a way...worth influencing and enlightening.  I find his views unrealistic...but maybe he is right.  Maybe is worth any fight...to give him time to see if he is :~)  The world needs both or else there are only hopeless tyrants who would burn us all.

My point:  who we are as people is defined by our beliefs and expectations.  We all have to define these for ourselves.  I think what is important is that we define them...else we will ourselves become the hopeless....do I make sense at all?

(speechless).

I thank you.

You are excused for not having a good and clear answer to why WWI was fought. Having studied a full year of history at the uni, I haven't got a good answer. Neither had my professors. But I am impressed by your knowledge of Greek mythology.

I am, however, a bit perplexed by your dichotomy of "left-wing" and "capitalist". Care to elaborate on that?

It's the truth - sadly.

"I wonder whether it was only my generation? I can tell you the name of every Greek God and their purpose but I couldn't tell you the reason that World War 1 was fought?!"

Now that is a hardhitting point.

Well I think she is certainly a writer I will always hold alot of respect for, whether reading her tale permanently alters the way I view life or not. (Although I haven't finished the book yet so if it all turns out to be a dream Reardon had in the shower, my repect for her may diminish - a bit :-)). 

I think everything is a matter of timing, I am easily influenced or at least easily enticed into learning more about things that stir me - and Ayn and our discussions on gun culture have led me to rethink my natural leanings on politics. (The fact that we are heading into a recession might have had something to do with it too.)

I was talking with an old friend the other night who is the same age as me, and we were discussing what we were taught at school, the fact that we were taken out of ordinary classes to watch films such as 'Threads' and 'When the wind blows' at such an impressionable age. The fact that we wore white poppies instead of red ones on rememberance day makes me feel ashamed of myself now. It was almost as though we were dis-honouring the soldiers that died. Denying our past out of fear of the atomic future. Our teachers taught us fear, hopelessness and regret.

We learned nothing factual about the World Wars, Vietnam, Turkey, Cambodia, Korea etc etc. We were taught more about the theoretical third world war - it's crazy.

I wonder whether it was only my generation? I can tell you the name of every Greek God and their purpose but I couldn't tell you the reason that World War 1 was fought?!

Shame on our education system.

As far as I understand her, Ayn is basically a watered-down Nietzsche ripoff, and even though I'm passed him, I still respect Nietzsche.

I think it is very healthy for you to "go into" a mindset - and like you said, Ms. Rand can bring you into one, but, as Jon and Lance have both suggested, she is grossly incomplete as far as the scope of worldview she offers.

BUT, that's not to say that you should hurry through this - I say, let sit and absorb her, absorb the implications. You'll find your own way out the other side in good time. It's important to really enter into perspectives, digest them, to be able to move on to the other side.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is - worry not - yes it feels all encompassing now - which is more of a testament to your ability to really consider a perspective (admirable, Nic!) than the universality of her view.

It's impressive that you've allowed her to challenge you, and that you've had the philosophical maturity to enter into it all, but worry not, you'll come out the other side more balanced overall - less leftist, ultimately, but not as "right" as she is either. Haha.

Isn't it amazing that a piece of writing can so shift our scope? If you want book suggestions that will assist in the cure to her, I'll share.

As far as Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, and Objectivist philosophy: these have been heavily criticized by most mainstream philosophers, and many people in general. People who follow Objectivism as their guiding philosophy in life are few and far between - and they are what normal people call "psychopaths".

LOL Ah but it's so pure and tempting when you read it, it's a wonderful piece of persuasive writing. I have never encountered anything like it, perhaps as I had no idea what it was all about before I picked it up, and there is such an enthralling story-line within it.

My nature and my upbringing has always made me lean towards more left wing literature and to be honest it was like a breath of fresh air. Everything would be so simple if things were so black and white... :-)

As for your recently sparked interest in history - I applaud your efforts! I feel that an understanding of the facts and events of history is very important for one's general knowledge, and as a starting point for understanding the world we live in today.

As far as Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, and Objectivist philosophy: these have been heavily criticized by most mainstream philosophers, and many people in general. People who follow Objectivism as their guiding philosophy in life are few and far between - and they are what normal people call "psychopaths".

Rational self-interest is a grain of truth that finds its place in capitalist economic theory. However, the reality is that humans are social animals and thrive in a community setting. That is part of capitalist theory, too, and is completely ignored by the Objectivist crowd. For example, Adam Smith wrote about how specialization and division of labor increases production; trade and a certain amount of government intervention are also accepted as necessary and benefical in modern capitalist theory. This aspect of capitalism is ignored by the Objectivists.

The utopian world of Ayn Rand - just like the utopian world of Marx and Lennin - would be a nightmare if it were implemented in real life.