any other variant ?

Agree...

you're wrong Gavriil24 : 1...Qg6, 2.g3, Qh5?, 3.Ra3 winning nothing; and about your 2nd version: white won't move 2.Nh4? (it's obviously a bad move).

NrthrnKnght wrote: "Nxg2 Kxg2 then Qg6+ ....followed by Qe4 or Qd3 pinning the knight dominating the white squares around the king". It will cause lose of material for black with no good reason- as the white knight can still be protected by Ra3 and by the queen if necessary. The best continuation appears in Boring304 's last puzzle on last page or in my last puzzle on this page (same beginning).

I offer simpla

1).....Qg6

     2a)g3 Qh5 

          3a)Ne5 Rd4 winning the pawn

         3b)Qb3 Ne2 and Nd4 winning the pawn

     2b) Nh5 Qg43) g3 Rd4 winning the pawn.

I feel exceptionally good, as a beginner, that my first choice for moves was the same as the authors!  Wahooo! 

And what if 1...Nxg2 2.Ne1

I think, good line for is 1...Nh3+ 2.Kh1 Rh5 3.Qe2 Ng5 (or Qf4)

idosheepallnight - 3.Ne5? results in Rxe5! 4.dxe5 Nh3+ 5.Kg2 Nf4+ 6.Kg1 Ne2+ 7.Kg2 De4+ 8.Kg3 g5 and  white's in big trouble , so i don't believe in 3.Ne5 to be played  :) 

Nxg2 Kxg2 then Qg6+ ....followed by Qe4 or Qd3 pinning the knight dominating the white squares around the king

Boring304 - actually we're both right, we're just talking about different positions. All what i was talking about worked in my games, so you can't say it's wrong. And i can't say what you were talking about is wrong because it also work in some cases. However you must agree that if white sees he'll lose certainly in 15-20 moves (not necessarily in our position) , it will be a good idia to try to create passed pawn by exchanging knight or bishop on 1-2 pawns.

a) no it isn't in most rook endgames it's not enough, in most queen endgames it's not enough, in some Q Vs R endgames it's not enough, in different colorder bishop it's no enough, in a few kings endgames it's not enough

b)in very very rare cases may be where the side to secrifice get a protected passed pawn on the 5th-6th line

c)but exchanging a knight for two pawns is not good, as for exchanging rooks

d)ok

e)on the contrary what peoples are saying is that in closed games to knights are better then bishop as then the knight can use their ability to jump across pieces while bishops can do nothing..
because there is no major of open position over close ones there is no use in saying that two bishop are ultimatly better then 2 knights

f)if you'll exchange 2 black pawns for two white pawns white will have no pawns to defend the passed pawn, the same will heppend if he will just pass one pawn, in this case a knight a rook and a king are enough to take it if the rook and the king are protecting it..  secrificing the knight was an immidiate lose for white as then black will have a knight to take as much white pawns as he want, while the king can easliy block white's one not-yet-passed pawn without loosing any pawn or secrificing the knight, and this in most stuations even if it was a passed pawn

a) In all endgames 1 pawn is enough to win (except a zugzwang end game position for the side which have this pawn).

b) I havn't said a knight is worth 2 pawns. In some situations (at end game position) if black (for example) is up a pawn, white exchanges knight for 2 pawns. After several moves black sucrifices his knight in order to stop a passed pawn. Now both sides have same material and it's draw.

c) "Exchanging rooks will lead to a minor piece endgame in which 1 pawn is absolutly enough to win, so this will not be good for white". I agree, but white had to try to exchange knight on 2 pawns, and it was possible only by exchanging rooks.

d) I explained about bishops and knights only as an example.

e) I've said that B>N at the beginning of the game and N>B at the end game and that usually BB>NN>NB- this is based on my experience and on what other people have said. BB is the best because they threaten and defend dark and light squares from distance. NN is worse because they threaten and defend dark and light squeres only from proximity, but they can do unexpected forks together. NB is the worst because the opponent pawns will be on the squares with the opposite color of the bishop's- i.e making him "bad bishop" which can only defend and only the knight will attack. Of course KBB vs K it's draw, KNN vs K it's draw and KBN vs K will win- but i'm talking about a position with pawns, having the same material value.

f) The idia was to exchage 2 white king side pawns on the black ones making a passed pawn, or just passing the pawn withought exchange (depends on the black). This pawn will be protected by the close pawn, by the king and rook- so black will have to sucrifice his knight; make repetitious checks; or put his rook, knight and king in a possition which will not allow the pawn to pass (but then he won't be able to develop these pieces)- in these 3 cases it's draw. In this particular possition it's a problem because there are also queen side pawns. Knight can eat one of them and then sucrifice himself by eating one of the king side pawns. But, believe me- i tried this idia and it works in some situations.

well:
a) in most rook endgames 1 pawn is not enoguh to win
b) a knight isn't worth 2 pawns even in the endgames, in most endgames it isn't worth even 3, so secrificing the knight isn't good
c) exchanging rooks will lead to a minor piece endgame in which 1 pawn is absolutly enough to win, so this will not be good for white
d) what the heck is the B/N relationship have to do with this, there aren't any bishops??
e)bishop is not always better then a knight, in closed game most of the time even a knight and a bishop is better then 2 bishops, and in open game a knight and a bishop is better then 2 knights.
f) note that even after you secrificed your knight for 2 pawns for no reason white have no passed pawns and even if he had a knight up is enough to take it without secrificing the knight or loosing any pawns on the side

Boring304 said: "vitali_10 - I don't understand why are you making such mistakes for white? sacrificing the knight will be an imidiet lose, switching rooks will be also bad for white, the line I gave gives white most chances to defend, and in it i don't see a clear way for black to win." In an end game position if black has 1 pawn more than white he will certainly win. Probably you say that i made mistakes because of the point system in chess. Just that you know- it's right but not exact. bishop and knight are considered as 3 points- but it depends. At the beginning of the game bishop is better than knight and at the end knight is better than bishop. If you're left with 2 of this pieces, the strength is: BB>NN>NB. At the end game queen (9) is usually better than bishop and rook (8), but this also depends. The same idia is in my lower puzzle- black has 1 pawn more than white. If white succeeds to exchange his knight on 2 black pawns, he'll have a passed pawn. Black will have to sucrifice his knight in order to prevent this pawn from becoming a queen- and this will lead to a draw. White tried to exchange knight on 2 pawns, but failed because he succeeded to exchange it only on 1 pawn, but he had to try.

jedikush - Nh3+ kh1 Ng5 was what he actualy played in the game, it's not working because of Ne5.

Nxg2 Kxg2 is not working because white have both the queen and the rook on a1 to come and defend the knight..

vitali_10 - I don't understand why are you making such mistakes for white? sacrificing the knight will be an imidiet lose, switching rooks will be also bad for white, the line I gave gives white most chances to defend, and in it i don't see a clear way for black to win

NH3+ is what he played in the actual game

Another interesting thought 1Nxg2.. Kxg2... 2Qg6+ Kh1. 3Qg4.. from white either A B or C3 are good options.. so is Qe2.. but after any of those moves.. Rf5 and ur getting the Knight back and the game as whites pawnstructure is in dissaray.. also not even sure if white can do anything about that continuation. moves seem somewhat forced in this continuation.

none of u have come up with my sneaky move.. NH3+! for black from the starting position...  cant make those diagrams but when i learn i will show u guys a cool line starting with blacks Ne3+ :D

Boring304 - your last version was right, but white can make the next moves:

That is why the idial line here is:

Of course white could move other move than 13.Re7- but unless they tried to exchange knight on 2 pawns, they would lose certainly.