Dear Sarah,

New picture is great-you look really happy.

Can you pray for my son John Wood please?

He is a soldier with the Household Cavalry (part of British Army) in Afghanistan.

Please can you pray for him anmd regiment--that they would be kept safe.

Many thanks

Steve. 

I see Sarah-chan. Well, I for one see my faults. To realise them and to make things right.^_^ We are members in the Church of Christ, which is not necessarily a building but us people. Therefore, we walk together as we walk on our sole journeys of our life with God. It speaks of what we should do about our shortcomings in 1 John 1:9. God knows we will sin, but once we see the truth we must fight the good fight of faith keeping the whole armour of God on always. Sometimes we fall, but we never leave the presence of God's grace. I agree with you that I need to do more. I have many faults. Yet that is not the end of my realization. My faith in God will help me to become stronger and being surrounded by people like you will help me greatly as well.^_^

Sarah (like the new pic), the idea of "universal salvation" is that all souls will (eventually) go to heaven and none will go to hell, because 1. God is all-loving and all-merciful, and 2. Jesus died for absolutely everyone, and not just for the Christians who believe in Him.

I would like to say this,I sleep through movies and church(when I go to each)

^_^ Wow, what an overwhelming number of replies. ^_^

My point here is actually so simple:

WE ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH.

So many talks, so many thoughts, but very few works, so little walks. ^_^

With regards to the UNIVERSAL SALVATION thing, I believe.

THEREA IS NO SUCH THING AS THAT.

Why?

Because Christ died for EACH AND EVERYONE OF US.

Not for a group of people, not for the WHOLE mankind.

BUT FOR EACH AND EVERYONE OF US. ^_^

God bless us all!

Furthermore, I would like to add that there shall no debating occur here. When such things occur among those who say they are following God it dissuade people from following God. It says in the Bible that all of our actions should be done out of love.^_^ Then let it so be. It is true not all sleep in church, it is not always hard to talk about God, not all find it boring to read the Bible, not all ignore God, and not all Churches grow smaller. But rather it is used like a wake up call. Her light thoughts placed here. To make us think together and not in dessension. I for one was aroused to think about waht I learned to today on my Sabbath. It is said we are to do all things into to edification. Then let it be done so.

Universal salvation, which goes by a few other names as well, is a doctrine stating that God's love and mercy for humanity is so vast that everyone, regardless of their beliefs, will experience salvation.  It essentially denies hell as a destination for souls after death; purgatory, however, is compatible with the idea since souls in purgatory are still, eventually, bound for heaven.

It was the prevailing viewpoint in the early centuries of Christianity, but it lost adherents with the rise of Catholicism, and was almost universally regarded as an aberration of the Bible's teachings all the way up until the Reformation.  In the context of the modern Protestant spectrum, the more socially liberal denominations tend to subscribe to this doctrine, while most conservative denominations reject it outright, asserting that God damns certain souls to hell while admitting others to heaven, according to His will.

Also, in response about Interrobang. You have not understood what he was writing about Calvinism. He knows a lot about it. It was not being rude to you in anyway. He would not do such a thing. I know him well enough. You just had a simple misunderstanding. So do reconsider what you have written sir.

Oh okay..I want to seek to understand the current thoughts of everyone..What is this saying about universal salvation. >.> I mean..Jesus died for everyone. So I am not understanding here. Furthermore, this is not to cause a debate.I seek simply to understand. ^_^ My point was from my earlier post is that nowadays worship, praise, and service at times is seen as routine and so we lack heart. God wants sincerity not an act or a rehearsal.

Re:  interrobang -- please read my above post before you dismiss doctrinal truth.  Without it, there is no infrastructure for belief, the gospel, and other related topics such as the one Sarah initiated.  I did answer her and without a dogmatic tic invovled.  The reasons for churches dwindling to nothing is because why go to any church that regards spiritual and sacred things as trvia or "take it.\/leave it."  Once more, I believe your view of a Calvinist is perjorative and wrong.  I hold to the doctrines of grace as being part and parcel of the gospel.  All have solid biblical and historical foundation and, coupled with true expository preaching/teaching, makes the cross (i.e., its message) offensive to the lost and troubles the "spurious" faithful into with many tribulations.

Spoken like a true Calvinist, Calvinist.

I do hope this discussion doesn't deteriorate into a petty dogma fight.  (Although, that occurrence would not only be all too typical of modern religious discourse, but also play directly to the point Sarah was trying to make in the first place.  Ah well.)

Ref to chpter12 comment above:  There is NO UNIVERSAL SALVATION!!  Better re-read Isa 53 and the NT.  The law was satisfied with Christ's offering and the descendants of Jacob are scattered (diaspora). 

"Why are churches getting smaller,
But bars and clubs are growing?"

church that getting smaller is not of God

because God promise is

Jer 30:19  And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

YOu should listen to John Foreman's instead of the show.^_^

Sarah's premise is not a new theme, nor are the replies.  But "traditional" churches that truly preach the Bible as God's word are in short supply.  The "churches" of today (at least in America) are more interested in "entertaining the goats than feeding the sheep" (Spurgeon in the 19th century).  The emergent church, the seeker-sensitive church, and like types do whatever is necessary to get a crowd; and don't leave out the market-place driven church (Warren types), ad nausium. They all have contributed to the shrinking in size and the preaching has been deluded to whatever feels good (or as a smorgasbord--pick and choose your god/theology).

Also, when we look at the world and then at the church, the question is "who changed?"  Compromise, promises of prosperity (health and wealth), dominion theology, and wild services where everyone is a tongue speaker (completely in violation of 1 Cor 12-14), and far too many seek the preeminence (see 3 John).

A true disciple will be humble, hungry and thirsty for the Word, preachers will not sacrifice biblical integrity for a few more pews filled, and apply each message and lesson to meet the audiences need.  Unless we are monergistic in our preaching and not synergestic, more churches will have their "candles blown out" and ICHABOD written across the doorway.  Actually, Dante's warning about the Inferno may really be more relevant, "ABANDON ALL HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER."  As Paul confesses in Rom 13:11 "...IT IS HIGH TIME TO AWAKEN OUT OF SLEEP...."  Nothing new -- 2000+ years -- time to be sober and alert!!

The bars and the night clubs will still grow more faster,

than all of the Churches, where swear the tired Pastor...

The Market of the Playboy oversize a Bible!

And we still ignore, that we have chosen a wrong table!

Dear Sarah,

I was wondering who these comments apply to.

Personally, I would not fall asleep in church. I would probably be watching a movie a bit later in the day and fall asleep then.

Again, I have no problem in talking about God, and am not interested in rumours.

I do not find the Bible boring.

There are lots of growing churches...........

It sounds like you need God to zap you with his Spirit.

You just need to abide him and you will be fruitful.  

thats true sarah and we call it the real world and where people lives in different way, directions, belief and way of life but the bottom line is just the same. In the real world where we lived as man as humans, it is more easy to make mistakes than do the right thing.It is therefore more easy to keep the faith and trust god within our hearts and love him in what way we want too. Thats why the door is very wide to our sins but very narrow to the good things.Don't be surprise about those things around the world or the real world, just be what you are and what we are, we leave everything to our God for he knows the best answer and remedy, we justmove on and keep going with hope ,faith and love

That's true!!

But we must change it...

Church services are usually in the morning, when people are less alert; movies are watched most often in evenings.  Also, I have a sense that things would be different if people needed to buy tickets to go to church.

Rumors can be nasty things sometimes, the way they have a tendency to spread like wildfire.  But unlike God, they are quintessentially human in nature.  We can relate to them on a visceral level, whereas God is, by definition, beyond human comprehension.

Playboy, likewise, appeals to its audience on a carnal level - a level on which people tend to be easily engaged by nature.  As a Biblical analogue, I don't think it's a stretch to say that certain passages are seen as more compelling by some believers because of their highly charged wording.  For example, if you compare Matthew 22:39 with, say, Leviticus 18:22 or Revelation 19:15, I think it's pretty obvious why so many people get so bent out of shape over certain things. Perhaps Jesus's core teachings might have gotten a little more attention if he had used words like "abomination" and "furious wrath" more.

The reposting thing gets rolled up into my last point.  But I think this is a straw man of sorts: it implies that people only repost nasty messages, which I'm sure isn't too true.  There are also plenty of people who choose not to ignore messages from their gods.  This seems like a non-issue, but perhaps the question could be rephrased.

Churches are getting smaller?  I'm surprised to hear this.  What is your source for that information?  I wouldn't have realized that was happening, what with the continuing renaissance in fundamentalism in Christianity and Islam, not to mention the ever-rising practice of the Abrahamic religions among third-world populations.  I don't think I'm convinced about this point either.  And likewise, where did you find out that bars and clubs are getting bigger?  Of course, they are popular entertainment venues for people to relax and socialize, and thus, once again, serve a very human need.  If they were becoming more numerous, I don't think I'd see an inherent problem in that.

Anyway, these are fruitful conversation starters, but the way I see it they can pretty much all be explained in very straightforward ways.  At any rate, I know your true thoughts along this theme run deeper than what you've just covered, and I hope considering these questions, flawed though some of them may be, helps you to open your mind to the underlying issues that really concern you.