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Women in Chess

Every two-three months, somebody started a topic "females and chess" in the forum here; the last is here. I wrote an article today and submited it at the page 2 of discussion (comment No 30). I publish it here too.

It's enough experiences to say a difference in interest for chess and level of skill between genders is NOT "mostly a cultural issue". You refered to "western countries" - you need to refer also to former comunist countries of Eastern Europe, including former Soviet Union (Russia and others). An equality of genders was one of key issues in comunist's ideology (my parents educated me this way, and equality was a natural presumption for me - I said I am post-feminist Cool; males are generaly physicall stronger, but it's not realy important - I am prety tall and strong, I sometimes beat guys in arm-wrestling - and there are extreme differences in physicall and mental abilities within every gender).

Still, statistics say there are differences in some achievements - boys are generally better with numbers, girls with words etc.. So what? It don't means we are not equall in general.

However, in chess, we can look at experiences of former Soviet Union, especially Russia. Governement suported chess strongly, and there are 90 years of experience. Even today, half of best 100 chess players in the world, according to FIDE rating list, are from ex-SU; and maybe half of ALL chess players in the world are from ex-SU. Students leart chess in every elementary school, girls equally as boys. Female chess were strongy suported.

And a result is, still, that before Judith Polgar, except Vera Menchik in 1920s and 39s (she was Russian, living in England), only two women were among the first 100 in the world: Gaprindashvili and Chiburdanidze. Both from Georgia - and female chess in Georgia is an exceptional case!

At the moment, there are 61.603 players on FIDE rating list with rating >2000, and 3779 of them are women - 6% only. Fom Russia: 8423 both, 842 women - 10% only, after 90 years of experience. Georgia is, as I said, an exception: 246 both, 79 females i.e. 32%! (And in last 10-15 years, China too). Still, the best female in Georgia is No 17 at the national rating list - not good enough.

And, let us go back to general numbers. As I said, among players with rating >2000 only 6% are females. And then:

  • * >2100    both: 40215    females: 1832      4,6%
  • >2200                21025                    708       3,4%
  • >2300                  8229                    233       2,8%
  • >2400                  2898                      73       2,5%
  • >2500                    845                      15       1,8%
  • >2600                    176                        2       1,4%

It's very clear: higher level of skils - lower percent of females. If we compare achievement in physical sports, statistics can be very similar, I supose. We can't find even similar difference in intelectual achievements, even mathematics or ingeneering. And as I mentioned before, my friend's remark (female, karate black belt 2nd degree): women are about 20% among karate masters, and about 2% among chess masters. (They must not fight agaist males for black belt, of course, but even if they need, they could win sometimes - as they actually do in treinings and unoficial matches - and at least 2% could take a black belt.)

So, I concluded that difference is so high that you can't explain it only, or mostly, as cultural issue. OK, males are generally better in chess, as like as in karate or aero piloting; so what? I am still among the top 2% here, and I strugle to be among the top 1%. Smile

And, as I said before: women are about 60% in high education now, and in next decade a percentage of women in top positions in politics, bussines, science etc. will continue to grow. There are more males in physics and more females in biology - so what? I can beat some guys in arm-wrestling, but most of them can beat me - so what, in both cases? I am prety agresive in chess (sometimes in life to, but usually not... err... I think I am not Undecided), I like to win and I am frustrated when I lost, and I work to improve my skills and results - as everybody else. What is case IN GENERAL is not important for me PERSONALLY.

Comments


  • 4 years ago

    LydiaBlonde

    @normajeanyates : You need not be inhibited, I haven't problems with this issue! I can't discuss about comunism in general, I was 8 years when Berlin Wall crumbled. Well, it's can be my personal education and personality that I don't feel problems feminists said as realy strong and important- OK, realy, sometimes it's a problem for women in this word, but sometimes it's an advantage to be women too. And males also have problems with themselves in the fast- changing world.

  • 4 years ago

    LydiaBlonde

    Life Master Mike Petersen (Zug)

    submite an article in his column "The Open File" : Women in Chess. I wrote and submited a comment, and I publish it here too.

    Somebody started a topic in foum here about the subject of genders in chess every few months, and there are a lot of comments. The last one: Female chess players. I wrote an article about it, and I submite it also at my blog:Women in Chess. My two points:

    • I generally don't like discusions about gender issues, and
    • I agree males are generally beter in chess and you can't explain it by social environment only - but, who care! I am personally stil better then most of them (among the top 2% here - actually, today, among the top 1% - smart me! Laughing).

    I said I am a post-feminist.

    Males have a fragile ego and they must have something to say "we are better" then woman - and it will be more and more important in next decades, for women are going to take control of MORE then 50% of top positions in politics, economy, science etc.. Smile

    It's true, females don't aspire to dominate DIRECTLY to much - even for me it's a case, in my every-day life - it's different in chess, I am an agresive player. Yell However, I don't like OTB play, direct confrontation with males with their fragile ego and I can't completelly smother my empathy. Kiss And to play with females... phu, even worser...

    Women usually like more subtle ways to impose their will, not throught a direct confrotation, and I am sometimes suprised that males didn't see that. Many times, as a witness of a conflict, I am at the side of a male... Undecided

  • 4 years ago

    normajeanyates

    okmrbill, you lost even to a FAKE Rusa! ;) [see 'her' account :) or lydia's most recent post]

    And great post.

    I have always been inhibited in pursuing this topic with lydia - I did not have to live in a civil-warn-torn disintegrating and then mutilated by politicians including leaders of NATO-member-countries. It is a sensitive topic, so I would not pursue it any further with lydia in future.

    e.g by mistake I might call the language 'serbo-croat' - there are all kinds of very sensitive issues involved...

    Just like, in another member's threads I *never* bring in Palestine/Israel.

    [but next year I will play games called 'free palestine' - there is a precedent, for early this year there was someone playing 2 games here called 'free palestine'.]

    I log in here to relax and unwind  -- why can't I keep political issues away when I am on chess.com? <grumbling at myself>

  • 4 years ago

    okmrbill

    I believe chess is a learned ability...gender should not factor....just like the lighting in the room need not factor.  The question falls on one of applied analysis, and various tactics, and known patterns.  Can men learn better than women?  Then your left with the question of why would a women/girl want to strive and excell  in a male dominated sport.  Some do, but I think social factors to include; peers, parents, media, and the chess federations that better promote the male events.  It happens in all sports reallly, moreover the bias extends into the work place regarding equal pay for women.  It's easy to say "That's just the way it is!" , but the old world notion to keep the female over the fire or in the kitchen still exisits today.  I digress, but the truth remains ...the reason more boys/men dominate in chess is because more males play the game.  Lydia, i've lost to you, and Rusa, and other females here...I curse !@###$$$%%^^ the same after every loss...lol  I would hope women don't feel after a win they put another guy in their place...but whatever drives their game is their business. 

  • 4 years ago

    LydiaBlonde

    @ Rocket2050 : I don't remember we ever played chess. Are u sure it was not armwrestling? Undecided

  • 4 years ago

    Rocket2050

    I won u in chess. Let,s thry arm-wrestlingWink

  • 4 years ago

    LydiaBlonde

    Oh well, I can't discuss about comunism in general. I was 8 when Berlin Wall falled dawn. Smile And 10 when Yugoslavia crumbled. I grown up in the time of war. It happened that I was more with boys then girls, as a tomboy, in my early teens. Played football, wrestled, played chess etc.. I changed when I was 13-14.  Yes there are differences - so what? Males of 165 cm are also not equall with males of 190 in some aspects. I see a few girls are interested in chess. I don't belive it will change esentially in future.

  • 4 years ago

    normajeanyates

    USSR - Josef Stalin [1] - [when USSR entered the 2nd world war] 'the supreme duty of a woman is to be a mother'. Does NOT sound equal to me at all!

    [1] the Georgia connction ;)

  • 4 years ago

    normajeanyates

    I must make it clear that lydia's point of view is fine for me. Not everyone has to be politically overloaded :)

    We do our work so that [among other things] lydia can live a better quality of life! Including  chess! We are her friends, not her enemies!

  • 4 years ago

    normajeanyates

    lydia, did you get equal opportunities in life *absolutely* compared to men? Could you go anywhere men could go, with *equal* risk, *equal* harassment or lack of harassment? Were you brought up *absolutely* equally as you would have been if you were a boy?

    Take this case. You were brought up In Yugoslavia. In your profile you mentioned that 'boys do not like to lose to a woman at chess'. [You said this in context of your personal case, not a ganeral case. But your statement was general]. So, If 'Communist' Yugoslavia was *so*  equal; then Yogoslavian girls did not like to lose to boys in chess, right? And for this reason, quite a few boys must have given up the idea professional chess because they likes girls better, so they preferred not to be a professional chess player because then girls would reject them. Was that true? Do you know of *one* example?

    lydia, you did grow up in what was then Yugoslavia but - Yugoslavia and USSR had gender equality only on paper, not *actually*! All 'communist' countries so far have been fake communist countries.

    I firmly believe that, with real absolute cultural+political+social equality between men and women; in a generation or so women will be equal to men at *all* levels of chess. Chess is not wrestling or even tennis: there are no biological differences involved. I believe. I may be proved wrong by futher research; but such unbiased reseach will only be possible when there is a *lot* of gender equality. [this is one of Beauvoir's major pints in 'sexe deuxieme' ] Needs a gramscian-type change-of-culture also, a state-capture revolution is not enough! I think as long as states exist it is not possible; but one will see further progress.

    The State is evil. But big business is the bigger evil because it is accountable to nobody. So we need the State for the present. But if we [anarchists] had siezed power in Russia 1917, we would have dissolved the State. [except technically; only for foreign-relations purpose. Inside there would be no State. That would NOT be the solution, but it would be the beginning of a solution.]

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